Q. To begin with, could you give us an idea about the nature of work at the National Human Rights Council in Morocco?
A. Thank you and welcome to your second home, Morocco.. The Human Rights Council is an independent national human rights institution, operating according to the Paris Principles adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1993. It was established in Morocco since 1990, and this year we celebrate the thirtieth anniversary of the establishment of this Council.
 Over the past thirty years, there have been a number of changes both at the institutional level and in the general political climate in Morocco. This institution has been at the heart of these transformations towards strengthening and developing the human rights culture in Morocco, and also in developing the practice of democracy.

Q. Could you tell us about the nature of these transformations?
A. Firstly, it can be said that the institution has always been keen in its recommendations to interact with all changes amid the significant transformations that took place, particularly its important recommendation regarding the establishment of the Independent Arbitration Committee in 1999, a committee entrusted with the task of compensating victims of past human rights violations. There is also another recommendation to establish the Truth Commission in Morocco, which is the Equity and Reconciliation Commission in 2004. Currently, the National Human Rights Council is monitoring the implementation of the recommendations of this commission.

Q. Do you really believe that there is a genuine change regarding human rights in Morocco?
Certainly, there is a real and tangible change at the level of human rights in Morocco. This change occurred through several stages. The first stage was the general relaxation phase in the country during the 1990s, which was accompanied by a phase of general political relaxation. Then, there was a phase of break with the past, represented, as I said, in the Truth Commission, "the Equity and Reconciliation Commission," which reconciled Moroccans with their history on a human rights level and established a new era through its recommendations. Then there was the 2011 constitution, which legally approved a set of measures that included strengthening rights and freedoms, criminalizing certain provisions that are criminalized by international charters, and considering these charters in their provisions as superior to national law within the framework of transparency and credibility.

Q. What about safeguarding freedom of expression in Morocco and the actual participation in decision-making or similar, whether from the opposition or non-opposition?
A. As I mentioned, there is the 2011 constitution, which provided a large space for the political opposition, and also provided a large space for parliament in terms of legislation, unlike what it was previously, and today it has become the legislative institution par excellence. It also gave the opposition an institutional role within the constitution, meaning the opposition is responsible for a set of matters and chairs a number of parliamentary committees. There is intellectual pluralism and party pluralism, as well as constitutionally enshrined political pluralism. Regarding legislative and political practices, there have been at least two cycles of legislative elections since 2011.
 There have also been local and regional elections, where Morocco moved from a centralized structure in the capital to expanded regionalization with 12 regions participating in decision-making, each with elected regional presidents and elected regional councilors.
Also, there are local institutions managing local public affairs, meaning that today political participation is consolidated. On the other hand, rights and freedoms are consolidated at the level of freedom of expression, freedom of thought, and freedom of opinion.
In addition, the General Assembly of the National Human Rights Council approved its annual report for 2019, which included that around more than 30-40 protests were organized in Morocco, mostly peaceful demonstrations that took place in normal circumstances where citizens express certain demands or protest against new issues.
 Also, it has become possible for Moroccans to submit petitions and legislative petitions. The constitution allows Moroccans to appear before the Constitutional Court to protest the unconstitutionality of laws, enabling them to participate in decision-making. Citizens outside the legislative framework, such as parliament, can also propose bills.

Q. Aren’t you afraid that this could be exploited by some parties or other entities to influence the course of decisions?
A. Concerns in the democratic process are legitimate, but democracy is highly important and protects itself. Democracy is a form of social organization that allows for correction within the political system. Therefore, if there is pressure from one side to push legislation contrary
 to the interests of a certain agenda, this always remains under the authority of the parliamentary institution that deals directly with citizens' proposals in a way that serves the public interest.

Q. How do you view the issue of political and security reforms in Morocco?
A. Morocco has made significant progress both in the field of human rights, establishing a new experience, and even in the political field and party pluralism. We have had party pluralism for a long time, and there is a good experience in practicing democracy. All these factors have brought Morocco to a stage of maturity in practicing democracy and human rights and safeguarding them. 
This does not mean that we have reached the ultimate with democracy; democracy is a continuous construction that also requires all actors—from institutions, parties, associations, and citizens—to be imbued with the practice of democratic values. Together, these factors will help build the rule of law state aspired to by everyone.

Q. Apart from what you have said, we find that human rights bodies generally in the Arab world are specifically influenced by the political decision of their countries and there is pressure on the human rights bodies not to exercise their real role in safeguarding Arab human rights. How do you find this in Morocco as an independent body? Do you face pressures from the state?
A. I would like to clarify here that national institutions are institutions formed by states to independently exercise certain functions from governments. This is based on the decision of the United Nations General Assembly. There is an international alliance of these institutions headquartered in Geneva. This international alliance accredits these institutions based on the degree of their independence from the executive authorities. 
The National Human Rights Council in Morocco has been classified at “A” level in terms of independence for a long time. Today, we are proud and zealous for our independence from the government in this regard. We are also independent from political parties and independent in our opinions. When we issue our reports, they often do not please governments and some opinion currents. Thus, we say we have fulfilled our mission because we are working to maintain a difficult balance between the state and society. Our mission is to give our opinion with complete independence, professionalism, neutrality, and sound judgment, far from any influences. Our opinion is based on international standards and best practices.
Also, here in the national institution we have exerted more effort because we issue recommendations to other institutions, including international courts.

Q. What about prisons in Morocco?
A. We visit all prisons in Morocco. Since 2018, we have a national mechanism for the prevention of torture, established under the law organizing the National Human Rights Council. We play our role both in protection and promotion of human rights even in these places which we call “places of deprivation of liberty.”
Generally, there is continuous improvement in prisons, but we also monitor some deficiencies such as overcrowding and other matters, and we try to improve them with prison administrations through recommendations we provide. In 2013, we issued a report on the situation of prisons in Morocco, from which we produced recommendations that we work on with all relevant institutions in this regard.

Q. Are there arrests due to freedom of opinion and expression? And are you satisfied today as the National Human Rights Council with the progress you have made in this field? 
A. I can say that today in Morocco we are far from arrests due to opinion or freedom of expression.
Today, we are active within this development as an independent national institution. In 2013, we submitted a report on migrants, and in 2014, the Moroccan government responded and decided to grant residence cards to more than 50 thousand migrants.
It should also be noted that we always consider the necessities of independence from our position as human rights defenders, and we want to achieve more things, issue recommendations, and continue working to achieve more and more in the field of human rights in Morocco.

Q. What would you like to say to the Moroccan community abroad, whether they are loyal to the Moroccan state or opposition?
A. We do not view citizens abroad as opposition or loyalists; we see them as humans before anything else. Their political opinions matter less to us than the respect for their basic individual and collective rights. I wish our brothers, Moroccan citizens abroad, to help their country in its developmental phase, whether socially, culturally, or economically. They should verify information from its sources and support their Moroccan brothers inside to develop their practices and consolidate the rule of law state.
Finally, many thanks to Mr. Mounir for this precious time you have given us. We wish you all the best and Morocco more prosperity, flourishing, and continuous elevation and progress.